She remembers one meeting with a sponsor and her
supervisor and not once did the sponsor speak with her
or even meet her eyes. “There were only three of us at
this meeting. So I said, ‘let me introduce myself again’ to
him to make my point. You always have to address things
like this.”
Ma found media attention, like with Loveless, to be
very helpful. In the early 1990s real estate in Asia was hav-
ing a particularly tough time. Ma was interviewed by the
Wall Street Journal and suddenly landlords and owners saw
her as an expert on Asian capital and her phone started
ringing off the hook, she says.
Market trends have also given her assistance. For
instance in recent years Asian buyers have accounted for
a significant percentage of US deals. “That was a time
when people were eager to work with Asian and if you
were female it didn’t matter.”
In ordinary times, though, being female and Asian
can seem to be a double burden, she says. “Racists will
perceive Asian women as submissive and bullies like to
dominate.”
No matter what it takes, she urges, you cannot let
them get away with it. “Always reveal or expose what
these bullies are. It is the only way to get them to change
their ways.”
Her preference is to always stay polite, but if they attack
first she ignores etiquette and moves to expose them. She
tells of a time she was invited to speak in Singapore. When
she arrived, she was treated dismissively, especially when it
became clear she would not kowtow. “The planners actu-
ally tried to keep me out of the room. My attitude was, ‘I
am here to deliver the best speech I can and you are trying
to keep me from doing that.’”
“I had to explain to them that what they were doing
was wrong and would be a discredit to their audience.”
This might not work for all women, Ma readily says.
“We all have our techniques—just don’t use society’s
yardstick to fight back—those are designed to favor the
establishment. We have to create our own.”
THE PROBLEM WITH OLD GUARD
DEVELOPERS
When she was starting out on her career, PharrahJackson, managing director at Greystone, hadaspirations of working in law enforcement, possiblywith the FBI. But her mother worked for FannieMae and that is how she landed her first few jobs.“My internship was at Fannie Mae and later Iworked at DUS shops.” She wound up loving it andwas hooked.
If this story sounds familiar that is because it is. Manypeople of color find their way into commercial realestate because they’ve been introduced to it by family ora trusted friend.
“Minorities look out for one another,” she says. “I have
had lots of ‘mothers’ and ‘aunts’ in my career in com-
mercial real estate. We all know each other. I know my
Black counterparts at our competition because there are
not that many of us.”
But Jackson’s perspective veers from many of her fel-
low Black female colleges in one respect: she feels that
the discrimination she has faced in CRE has been because
she is a woman and not because she is a woman of color.
This discrimination is not overt but it still can be veryundermining. “For example, I will answer a question at ameeting and the person will look to my boss for confirmation that I am right.” Even after 17 years at Greystone,she says, that still happens today.
Jackson also says that many people are accepting of
her expertise and don’t see her as a Black woman. Old
guard developers can be an exception, though, she
says, and these are the ones most likely to look to her
boss for confirmation. “But even that, I feel, is becom-
ing less of a problem. Twenty-years ago I was asked to
fetch coffee in a meeting. That hasn’t happened in a
long time.”
The way to counter such actions is simple, Jackson
says: speak up. “Women don’t do that enough but it is
the only real way to effect change.” ◆
“I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE AN EXCELLENT MANAGER WHEN I WAS STARTING OUTWHO PUSHED ME PRETTY HARD TO GET OUTSIDE OF MY COMFORT ZONE AND MAKESURE THAT I WAS VISIBLE TO SENIOR MANAGEMENT.”
SADHVI SUBRAMANIAN
